Is "80 Blocks from Tiffany's" essential viewing for the hip hop fan?
The 1979 documentary "80 Blocks from Tiffany's" is a fascinating slice-of-life look at two South Bronx gangs, the Savage Skulls and the Savage Nomads. Although this isn't the most hip hop film we've ever discussed, there are some interesting tidbits about the conditions from which hip hop emerged.
Topics discussed:
- There isn't much plot line or narrative, but the glimpses of how these gangs operated are entertaining
- We enjoyed the scenes with local resident Joan Butler
- There are a few examples of hip hop elements - can you spot them?
- If you do watch this film, watch Rubble Kings after
Also check out:
Our episode on Rubble Kings
Credits
Hip Hop Movie Club is produced by your HHMCs JB, BooGie, and DynoWright. Theme music by BooGie.
And remember:
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Transcript
Welcome to Hip Hop Movie Club, the show that harmonizes the rhythm of hip hop with the magic of movies.
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:Today we're discussing the 1979 documentary 80 Blocks from Tiffany's.
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:We're three old heads who put their old heads together to vibe on these films for you.
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:I'm Dyno Wright, podcaster, filmmaker, longtime hip hop fan.
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:I've just seen New York's own Living Colour in concert and they threw in a little hip hop medley.
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:Check it out on our Instagram.
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:Nice.
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:I'm JB, 80s and 90s, nostalgia junkie, longtime Hip Hop fan and dip dip dive, so socialize, clean out your ears and open up your eyes.
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:as
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:Yes.
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:Nice, nice.
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:I'm Boogie, a DJ, long time hip hop fan and I was a fiend before I became a teen.
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:I melted microphones instead of cones of ice cream.
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:Very nice.
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:Uh.
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:In this episode we'll answer the question, is this essential viewing for the hip hop fan?
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:Let's just talk off the cuff about 80 blocks from Tiffany's.
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:uh For me, this was a non sequitur.
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:Just like my opening line, totally non sequitur, didn't really follow.
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:It was focused on a couple of the gangs that we had seen profiled in Rubble Kings.
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:Specifically the Savage Skulls and Savage Nomads were featured.
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:All I can say, was kind of like reality TV before reality TV.
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:became a thing because as Dyno Wright mentioned, this was in 1979.
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:So it's kind of like cameras following around these two gangs and they just discuss what they're doing for the day, what their lifestyle's like, all types of little craziness.
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:Yeah, we should say that the filmmaker, Gary Weis, just sort of followed them around and didn't really have a lot of narrative or context added to it to like give it more
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:shape.
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:It just really was sort of a slice of life in there.
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:And so uh I seem to think this would be a good one to see before Rubble Kings.
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:You could see, watch this one as an appetizer for Rubble Kings, which gives you more context.
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:it comes out, Rubble Kings comes out.
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:few years ago and so you've had the full span of time since then.
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:But yeah, it really is kind of unstructured.
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:It's unstructured, there's not a big plot line.
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:You see, you we're in the Bronx like usual, we knew what it was like because we saw Rubble Kings I like the intro, the backdrop of the Statue of Liberty and the Twin Towers, Latin
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:music, some of the burnt out dwellings that really sets the scene well.
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:But then from there, it's kind of just a lot of chaos.
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:Yeah, I mean, this yeah, like it's chock full of anecdotes like you see a lot of oh instances where a member from one gang or the other will kind of tell a story about
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:something that he's witnessed or something that he took part in.
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:So you get a little bit of insight from the first person perspective.
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:We've discussed the Bronx and, you know, in the early,
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:the 60s and 70s and even the 80s back then.
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:we kind of have, if you listen to our episodes, you kind of have an idea of what it was like back then.
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:This just kind of shows you that raw footage as he's walking around with the camera and the guys are talking.
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:I mean, they throw in some, some reenactments, you know, that you can kind of get an idea of what they were talking about.
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:But oh even without the reenactments, you could still kind of feel it, even if they just explained it like
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:But it'll mean, did find it interesting in that aspect.
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:I mean, from being like a sociology major, I like to see period pieces.
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:And I like to get an idea from the people's perspective.
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:So in that aspect, it was good.
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:But yeah, there was no cohesive storyline to follow, no plot.
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:Not even uh like with Rubble Kings, we saw
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:the layout.
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:um We say, okay, this is what's happening.
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:then every little clip that they show followed that segment.
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:And then this happened.
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:And then you get all of the layout of that.
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:Okay, then we had, you know, this incident and you hear all of the perspective revolving
incident.
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:Okay, now we get to the peace treaty meeting and you hear all of the side.
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:So it kind of broke it down so you can follow it.
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:Here they'll talk about one part.
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:And then it's about something that happened like, you a couple of years later, you know, a couple of years earlier than they go back to this and then back for, and then you see a person,
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:Joan Butler.
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:Yeah.
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:man.
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:Joan Butler was, you know, Joan Butler remind me of how my mom is,
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:where, you know, she kind of, you know, walks out and knows everybody and like nobody bothers her really.
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:And like she, she was a gem, I loved hearing her, her perspective on things and they were asking her about, um, specific members from each gang.
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:And she's like, oh yeah, that guy's a character.
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:Oh yeah.
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:He’s this, this and that.
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:Oh yeah.
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:I like that guy.
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:And she's telling me some different stories about those guys.
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:And I definitely enjoyed the moments with her on screen because I could see that she was passionate about the neighborhood and she definitely cared.
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:And I think that, communities need a person like that.
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:to kind of hold it all together.
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:Because even to fast forward a little bit towards the end when she was trying to set up and organize the block party and you know there were a couple of you know disagreements
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:that were going.
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:said, nope there's no fighting here.
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:Nothing.
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:She shut it down quick.
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:Boom.
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:No.
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:None of that.
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:And you need people like that.
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:So I definitely appreciated the moments with her on screen and also father.
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:uh Gigante he was he was cool too and he probably and I think his perspective was was interesting because he looks like he might have been involved in some you know some some
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:stuff before you know straightening themselves out and it's always good to see that you know people like that because you so you know no matter where you are doesn't have to
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:necessarily have to define where you're going to be at in life you can always uh reroute yourself and
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:follow a better path.
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:So I definitely appreciated seeing the moments on screen with him talking.
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:Yeah, some of the guys were funny.
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:The interactions were a little funny sometimes too.
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:As you guys mentioned,
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:I would definitely watch this one first and then Rubble Kings. Because I think our mistake was we watched Rubble Kings first and
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:then we watched this.
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:It's like, man.
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:had more of, like you said, a plot line followed and then the denouement and then it's like, and then we leaded the hip hop, like the peace treaty.
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:And then they kind of put their weapons down and they pick up the mics and the turntables.
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:And it kind of, you see that evolution and the founding of hip hop before even Kool Herc um, jammy jam party that so famous.
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:This one just follows this crews around the character.
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:Like you said, Boogie, the characters were what made me.
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:smile and laugh the most.
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:Joan Butler, there was a guy, Bob Werner, nine year police veteran.
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:joins the youth task force.
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:has your typical, you know, hard exterior.
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:And then the guy, Heavy, the former nightclub owner, he was describing shootings and violent acts.
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:And then in one scene he just appears with like a holding a snake.
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:I'm like, what is that all about?
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:I was like, okay, now he's got a snake.
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:Okay.
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:So like I said, I go back to the term as a non sequitur, like nothing really followed.
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:The kid Fly was pretty cool.
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:He had the hip hop style.
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:And Evelyn, former gang member, guy Frankenstein, who looked like he was strung out.
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:And Outlaw, Manny, Hollywood, India, Shorty, I like the names.
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:And Crazy Joe, was president of one of the two gangs.
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:And the kid DSR, he had many offenses and stuff.
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:So it was kind of interesting, these are the characters.
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:But the funniest scene for me was that dude Jamal and horse talking about how they're going to fight.
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:That was like a comedy skit.
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:He's like, won't hit you in the mouth.
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:don't hit me in the mouth.
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:And then Jamal's like, my leg's messed up.
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:All right, I won't hit you in the eyes.
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:How about I do that?
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:And he's like, when are we going to fight?
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:And he's like two Fridays from now.
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:He's like, what's today's date?
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:What month are we in?
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:Okay, so not next Friday.
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:Okay, so it's the end of August.
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:Two Fridays I was what the heck?
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:I was like literally laughing out loud.
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:Like, what is going on?
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:And then he just like pushes him in the head and walks away.
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:What?
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:Yeah.
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:It was kind of like a Beavis and Butt-Head routine.
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:what?
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:Jeez.
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:The reenactments are kind of weird too.
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:was kind of like, they reenacted these kids like picking up crutches from a big pile of trash.
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:guy pulls up to them and then they're using the crutches to walk and then there's, it's a setup to steal from the market.
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:And it was kind of odd.
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:then a later reenactment was the guy smoky in a casket.
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:His funeral, I guess.
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:But it was kind of bizarre.
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:Yeah, that one reenactment.
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:Yeah, when they were the kid came out, walked on the crutches and made the truck, the truck slow down and stopped and everybody ran in the back and started unloading.
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:And then, but that was crazy, though, because right after they had that, they were interviewing the manager from the Hunts Point Market.
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:And he said it happens like five to 25 times a week.
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:It's like what?
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:And he was talking about how, you know, some of the drivers.
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:unfortunately, you know, started carrying guns with them because of those incidents.
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:I was like, wow, that's that's pretty crazy.
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:But yeah, it's like it looks it looks like something that you see in a movie.
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:They say, we going to run a heist?
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:OK.
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:You go out and distract them while we unload the back of the truck.
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:I'm like, people actually did that.
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:And then, yeah, right.
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:And the other one when they had the guys scaling the wall with the rope and then like get it to the climbing into the window and then lower down the TV.
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:It's like what?
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:In broad daylight, right.
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:But you see this community like torn by violence, but the little anecdotes like the store owner who befriended the Savage Nomads and like they had the blackout, but his store was
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:left intact because he had befriended them.
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:So everybody else, their store was totally looted.
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:And so you can do what you do to get along.
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:guys, Blackie and Comanche, those guys were pretty hardcore criminals and they were
telling some of their stories.
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:But you do see the themes.
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:So like if you look beyond the hijinks and craziness of it and you can follow it, the themes of crime being like the major source of income, the whole Bronx is burning, you see
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:landlords, they would pay a gang member either just 50 or a hundred dollars to burn down the building and they recoup the insurance money, which was...
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:an epidemic back then, we talked about that multiple times.
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:So you do see those types of themes, but it is just kind of a slice of the much more polished documentary, Rubble Kings which we had watched prior.
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:So yeah, you'll pick up little tidbits, but it's not polished by any means.
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:doesn't really also lead into much hip hop.
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:So this isn't really a truly hip hop film, except for the fact that the entire gang movement, like we saw in Rubble Kings led to the hip hop.
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:But in this case, all we saw in terms of hip hop was, very end, that guy Frankie D was like spinning a record and DJing.
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:You know, so the block parties were occurring and you know, they were playing a little hip hop at the end there.
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:(But it wasn't) It’s a stretch, yeah.
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:You could see graffiti on trains.
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:so, you know, there's that, not much.
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:And then, uh, I think it's India.
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:I should have wrote this down, but during the block party, she does get up on the mic, I
think.
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:She says, “yes, yes, y'all,” which I don't think it was her that originated that, but Kool Herc is known for doing it.
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:I think that was the common thing that people would just say.
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:during parties like this.
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:so you still hear that saying now.
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:oh it's part of the mix.
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:And then the one thing I did notice about Heavy, he drives his Cadillac through the fire hydrant.
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:And I was like, I wonder if this was like influential to Spike Lee.
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:From what I can tell, it wasn't, but that was the sort of thing that happened in, in New York at that time.
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:And so it came from the same place, I think, that Spike Lee saw this in.
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:These connections to hip hop are very almost like uh precursor, very preliminary, but it does sort of fit in if you watch this before Rubble Kings and then go on to like
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:Style Wars or Wild Style, Beat Street, you know, the real essential or the real sequence is to do this before you get to the other ones.
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:Right, right.
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:Good road map, yeah.
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:Right, Yeah, Heavy's pimped out Caddy.
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:Complete with a megaphone.
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:He didn't even have to get...
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:He had a megaphone on his Caddy.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:He said, hey, guys, you stop, because we're filming.
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:they shut it off.
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:Like, you can go by.
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:Unlike, what we saw in Do the Right Thing.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:Well, you mentioned the cops too.
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:And they said the South Bronx cops were built different.
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:They had holster here, holster all over the place, which was unique.
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:But then you also see the themes of profiling and prejudice and whatnot.
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:So they would just get pulled over when they weren't even causing issue.
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:Obviously a lot of these guys did have a long checkered past criminal record.
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:It was known by the community, but there was times when they were just like, I'm just hanging out and they just had pulled them over.
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:search them and accuse them of stealing a shirt or whatever.
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:And these guys were not guilty of anything at that point.
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:So those common themes you see even back then.
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:Yeah, I think the one thing that I, another thing that I saw that was kind of interesting and they kind of, they touched on it a little bit in Rubble Kings when they were talking
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:about the Gestapo members of the gang.
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:we have, when Fly actually showed us that he actually did have a cell for holding members that were carrying themselves in behavior that uncharacteristic of a member of their club.
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:You see, knew if they were being disrespectful to people unnecessarily or just I would
just cause a havoc wearing the colors.
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:They would have to see him and he would actually put them in the cell.
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:And I was like, wow, it actually had a gate on it like an actual jail cell.
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:So I found that actually interesting because, know, that I'd actually I didn't know.
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:But they actually had like a Gestapo who was kind of like they held their standards up for the club and held members to task.
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:They stepped out of line.
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:It's like, huh, pretty interesting.
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:Where do you purchase one of those cells Amazon?
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:Amazon today?
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:Holding cell, please.
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:That's wild.
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:Yeah, that was wild.
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:I know.
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:Yeah, and I think the other thing that I did, and I picked up on too, was when they were talking to Joan, and she was talking about how
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:when they first started appearing, they would just randomly attack people, cause all kinds of ruckus or whatever throughout the neighborhood.
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:But then over the years, as they began to evolve, they kind of started.
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:to protect people in the neighborhood and people, whatever was going on.
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:that's how, guess that's probably, I don't know that was her influencing them or them influencing one another or kind of just we've realized that they needed to do better kind
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:of like what we saw in Rubble Kings.
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:But yeah, because of that, she knew them by name and a lot of the members respected her.
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:I kind of touched on it little earlier, which was kind of cool.
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:Oh, think another thing, another guy, we mentioned DSR.
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:So DSR was, I think his story was a little interesting.
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:It skipped around, but I noticed that I saw there was a bit of a theme going on.
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:And he said at one point he was pushed out of a window and he woke up 11 days later, partially paralyzed or something like that.
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:He ended up having to rehabilitate himself and members were coming by to see him.
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:But then like it showed him later, he had
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:stole borrowed some magazines and newspapers that had pictures of members and he started putting like a collage book together and he was getting the guys to sign the book, sign
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:pictures of their pictures in a book.
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:I was like this guy was kind of interesting.
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:It was a little weird but it was kind of interesting.
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:And he started tagging and he actually did mention that he started tagging trains and then he started his name started going around kind of like which was mentioned in some of
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:the other documentaries.
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:We started seeing his name traveling around the different boroughs on the subways and he started becoming known for that.
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:And then he started taking some karate training, which kind of helped him with discipline and focusing and things like that.
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:And since he started doing those things, he didn't want to go back to jail anymore.
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:And he said he's ready to graduate high school and go to college.
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:And I was like, okay, okay.
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:And Blackie's wife.
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:Who had mentioned she pulled him out of the gang.
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:She ended up helping pull him out by keeping him on task and finding things for him to do around the house because she she didn't care at first she was all right, know, he's
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:doing what he's got to do.
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:But now I have these kids and I got to take care of this and I got to take care that and I'm not doing it by myself.
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:So I'm gonna make him do it.
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:And if he really cares about me, he's going to start doing it.
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:And you he started doing it.
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:And so it's like a couple of guys, you know, showed how
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:they were able to straighten themselves out.
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:I was like, okay, so not everybody, you know, ended up like a knucklehead, but you know, people actually, you know, did find their ways out.
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:I did notice a Swastika flag prominently displayed behind DSR one of them and I was like, well, that's not cool.
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:um But, DynoWright, you said that was in another, that may have been in Rubble Kings as well.
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:guess that was one of those, one of the symbols that some of the gangs had, you know, displayed.
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:They were doing shock value.
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:They were going completely counterculture with it.
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:And they knew for a fact that it was offensive.
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:And that's exactly why they did it.
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:Yeah, they mentioned that in Rubble Kings.
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:Yep.
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:content warning.
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:Yeah, yeah, yeah, first of all.
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:language.
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:oh
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:language is universal, but Swastikas is very jarring, at least especially now.
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:yeah, it jarred me as well.
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:eh
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:Back to DSR, he,
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:I read some interviews afterwards and he didn't expect to live much longer after this documentary came out, especially not until live until the DVD release of it in 2010 and
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:really not live to see to be in Rubble Kings in 2015.
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:So definitely if you if you do get into this, watch this, then watch Rubble Kings and then you can see the progression.
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:He did not, being a gang member, you don't expect to live long.
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:know, your life expectancy is a lot shorter than normal.
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:Absolutely.
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:Want to rate this one?
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:Let's go around and rate this one.
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:So Boogie, for 80 blocks from Tiffany's, would you bring that funky flick back or leave it in the vault?
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:It's a tough one, but I think I might leave it in the vault.
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:Dyno Wright how about yourself?
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:Bring the funky flick back or leave it in the vault.
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:I say bring this funky flick back, but only if you're a real hardcore hip hop fan.
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:you're a super fan, get on this.
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:If you're not, then you can spend your time elsewhere more productively.
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:Yeah, I'm going to say Leave It In The Vault because, know, Rubble Kings clearly outshines it and covers these two gangs and many others and tells a more logical story.
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:And there are other documentaries as well that, you know, would cover the same material about the gangs in South Bronx.
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:Yeah, this is not an out and out hip hop film.
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:I think on the spectrum that we have, this is like at the very edge.
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:This is barely hanging on to the spectrum.
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:Yep.
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:Yep.
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:yeah, I'm glad I'm glad I watched it, but I don't know if I want to sit around and watch it again.
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:Yeah, I wouldn't recommend it, but it's one of those ones.
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:You look at the whole library of movies and documentaries that we've watched.
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:I would say this is very, very low on the list towards the very one, two percent.
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:I I would probably recommend it with an asterisk.
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:Yeah, I wouldn't recommend it to say, gotta watch this.
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:I'd have the disclaimer with an asterisk, like you must watch Rubble Kings after you watch this.
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:You know, then you'll get the full picture.
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:But don't just watch it and expect to learn anything.
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:is a good appetizer for Rubble Kings.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:Hip-Hop Movie Clubs produced by your HHMC's JB, Boogie and Dyno Wright.
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:Theme music by Boogie.
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:And on June 25th, tap in and come out to SteelStacks for our screening of the classic Beat Street.
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:Tickets at SteelStacks.org.
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:As always, check out our full live event schedule on our website, hiphopmovieclub.com.
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:Thanks for listening to the Hip Hop Movie Club Podcast.
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:If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend.
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:It's a real power up for us.
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:Remember don't hate pontificate.
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:Hey!
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:Shout out to Pope Leo.
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:Okay.
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:Chi-Town's own.
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:Like Special Ed said, think about it.
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:Think about it.
